The True History of the World

Amogha: Mars is above the moon?

Śrutakīrti: But the scientists wouldn't even agree that the sun is the first created thing.

Prabhupāda: Who is accepting them as scientists? You can accept them. Why Sunday first? Wherefrom they have gotten?

Śrutakīrti: That was gotten from Greek mythology.

Prabhupāda: Then Greek, where they got it?

Devotee (1): Some of the days are named after different demigods. Wednesday is named after a god named Woden.

Prabhupāda: Where they got these demigods?

Śrutakīrti: From Greek mythology.

Prabhupāda: Greek mythology, that's all right. But where they got?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, they say they made it up.

Amogha: But all knowledge comes from the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Greek history is about three thousand years. [break] ...During the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit's grandson. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was the grandson of Yudhiṣṭhira, and Yudhiṣṭhira ruled over five thousand years ago. So the Yayāti... Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's grandson is Parīkṣit. His son is Janamejaya. And his son is Yayāti. And his son started Greek and Roman Empire. So therefore the Greek history is not more than three thousand years. Mahārāja Yayāti banished his two sons to the European quarters. Mleccha-yavana. Later on they became yavana, from Vedic culture deviated. This is the history.

Amogha: He sent them there for conquering?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No. He gave him, that "You take that place."

Amogha: Oh. "This is your kingdom."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every, all world was emperor, the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and the family. Sa-sāgara. Sa-sāgara means "including all the oceans." That means the whole world. There was one flag only during the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. And he first saw the cow-killing maybe in Africa or in Arabia. One black man was trying to kill a cow, and Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on tour, and immediately he punished him. That is Kali. The black man means Africa. Or where other place, black men?

Paramahaṁsa: Some of the, there are some natives in Asia also, southeast Asia, that are black.

Prabhupāda: Arabia? No. Arabians are not black.

Paramahaṁsa: Not... Generally they're not so black. Indonesians are black.

Prabhupāda: No.

Śrutakīrti: Africa is about the only place other than some islands.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Africa is black.

Amogha: Aborigines here also.

Paramahaṁsa: They have black natives here also, Australia.

Prabhupāda: They are all descendant of the same.

Amogha: Did the Greek civilization follow the Vedic culture?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They were worshiping demigods from the Vedas.

Paramahaṁsa: But they didn't have a very high standard.

Prabhupāda: These, these Vedic mantra, there is mention of so many demigods, how they were born. You do not know the meaning.

Paramahaṁsa: No, we are just chanting.

Prabhupāda: How, one after another, how one is born out of the... That is... How the brāhmaṇas were there, kṣatriyas were there—everything in Vedic... These Vedic mantra means the history of human society. And the origin is God, Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa. There are other mantras wherein it is stated, eko nārāyaṇa āsīt. "Only Nārāyaṇa was there." Neither Lord Śiva nor Brahmā. Later on, they came. When he first cites the mantra, vande mahā-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam, śiva-viriñci-nutam [SB 11.5.33]. Śiva means Lord Śiva, and viriñci means Brahmā. All of them offer respect to Nārāyaṇa. Indian astrology was taken by the Arabians first. The one, two, three, four, five, six, these figures were taken from India, up to nine, then zero. Then you make all mathematical, arithmetical calculation.

Amogha: The Arabic numerals came from India?

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all they took the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven...

Śrutakīrti: The Romans had a very complicated system.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) If you write 1975 it will become so big. (laughter)

Śrutakīrti: Yeah. Some twenty letters.

Prabhupāda: This "Sunday, Monday," means first sun, then moon. Where they are going? They are going to hell, not in the moon. This Vedic description is right. Because first study, Sunday... That, we offer gāyatrī to the sun. So the moon is after the sun—this is the proof, first Sunday, then Monday. So if their calculation is 93,000,000 miles from here, and moon is (sic:) one million, six thousand still farther, then where they are going? If they simply follow strictly this moon expedition and they admit they have not gone, then the whole civilization will change. All wrong conclusion. But they will have to admit now. Now they are serious, and they will have to say that they've never gone to the moon. And they will have to continue this. Otherwise they will be farce before the world. They will have to continue it. Now they are in such a position.

Paramahaṁsa: They can't just stop and say, "OK, now we..."

Prabhupāda: If they stop, then they are failure.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And then everyone will complain, "Oh, you wasted billions of dollars."

Prabhupāda: And if they go, then they will have the right information. But they will never be able to go.

Devotee (1): Just like Rāvaṇa could not reach the heavenly planets just by building the staircase.

Prabhupāda: That was his only demonic proposal, that "We make staircase." He said that "Why you are undergoing so much austerities to go to the heavenly planets? I shall make a staircase. You will go."

Amogha: How high did he make it?

Prabhupāda: He never attempted. He simply bluffed, that's all. So demons' proposals are like that. Therefore it is a common say in, hearsay in the, in India, that rāvaṇe sarge sini(?): "The proposal is just like Rāvaṇa proposed to make a staircase to the heavenly planets." He was also very much advanced materially, very prosperous materially. Gold was very common thing. He brought gold from Brazil through the subway. His brother was king there, in southern America.

Amogha: Kumbhakarṇa?

Prabhupāda: No, Mahīrāvaṇa. Mahī, mahī means the earth. He used to go through the subway, through the earth. So other side there was another Rāvaṇa. That is Mahīrāvaṇa.

Devotee (1): He built the subway?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The subway is still there, Brazil. Somebody said?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, they found some parts of a subway there, some big tunnel. But they don't know where it goes, though.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is from Ceylon to Brazil, subway. And Rāvaṇa's civilization, Rāmacandra's fight, some millions of years ago. That is in the Tretā-yuga. The duration of Kali-yuga is about, say, four lakhs of years. And Dvāpara-yuga, eight lakhs of years. And then Tretā-yuga, twelve lakhs of years.

Paramahaṁsa: About two millions years ago, Tretā-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why? Twenty lakhs, ah, two million, yes. Two millions of years ago the Rāvaṇa's civilization was there, and he was so prosperous. He had airplane. The zeplin, zeplin?

Amogha: Jet plane?

Prabhupāda: Not jet, zeplin.

Amogha: Oh, with the air and gas inside.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His son's name was Meghadūta. He was flying above the cloud. Therefore his name was Megha. Megha means cloud. They were so much advanced in civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: What kind of civilization was in South America at that time?

Prabhupāda: The same like. Therefore these Mexicans, South American, they resemble therefore almost Indian body.

Amogha: They also eat food... They eat a food similar to the cāpāṭi.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: Tortillas.

Prabhupāda: Cāpāṭi, in Middle East also they eat.

Devotee (1): Yes, in Lebanon.

Paramahaṁsa: In Tehran we saw those big cāpāṭis.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Six feet long.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so big. One cāpāṭi is sufficient for the whole family. They are sold in market, purchased.

Śrutakīrti: Very cheaply.

Paramahaṁsa: Only three or four cents apiece.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They don't make much profit. That is the oriental culture. They make little profit; they are satisfied. Still in India you will find many hotel, very cheap, very cheap. Especially Mohammedan hotels. Still, by paying eight annas, you can get full meal.

Devotee (1): When Rāvaṇa was on the earth, was the whole earth populated, like Brazil and also the other parts of the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere population. This is a new theory of the rascals that there was no civilization before three thousand years. This is wrong theory. Everything was there.

Devotee (1): So when Mahārāja Yayāti banished his sons to those kingdoms, they were already populated there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Paramahaṁsa: They seem to be pretty much kṣatriya races.

Prabhupāda: And during Kurukṣetra fight, all different kings joined, either to this party or that party.

Amogha: Oh, from all over the world.

Prabhupāda: It was first-grade world war, Kurukṣetra. There is the one king, Śaibya, he came from Śibiya. Where is Śibiya?

Amogha: Siberia?

Prabhupāda: Śibiya.

Amogha: Oh, Śibiya? That's Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, maybe there. There were... All the kings of the world, they joined, either this party or that party. Friends, friendly countries, they joined. Just like Kṛṣṇa. He personally joined Arjuna, but He gave His soldiers to Duryodhana. It was family war. So the friends divided, "I will join you." It was sporting. For the kṣatriya fighting is sporting. They have football match. They did not take it as enmities. Just in the evening they are friends. This party goes to that party, that party goes to... It is a decision, who will be king, that's all. Test of strength. Actually it was not enmity. "Let us fight, and who is strong he will be king, that's all."

Devotee (1): And the losers will go to the heavenly planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who dies in such fight, he goes to heavenly planet.

Devotee (1): So they were not afraid of dying.

Prabhupāda: No, why? They knew. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. "I am not going to die after the annihilation of this body." It was a common understanding. Not that such a man, big man, director, he says, "No, no, I don't believe in the soul." (chuckles) Therefore I said the fourth-class man. In India still, even a common man, uneducated farmer, he believes. He believes. He believes in God. He believes in transmigration. He believes in his karma. These things which will take thousands of years to be learned by the Westerners, even the common man knows still.

Devotee (1): And all Kṛṣṇa's soldiers were killed?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: So Kṛṣṇa fought against His own soldiers also.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa did not fight.

Amogha: Oh, that's right.

Prabhupāda: He did not.

Amogha: But He led the fight.

Prabhupāda: He was chariot driver at the risk of being killed. The other party may kill the chariot driver to stop the progress of the enemy. They kill. They kill the horses, they kill the charioteer, then the person. So Kṛṣṇa took the risk of being killed. Bhīṣma attacked Him. He pierced His body with arrows.

Devotee (1): I think the tribes in South America, the Aztecs, they were also worshipers of the sun-god.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): They had very much gold. And the Spanish, they came and plundered the gold.

Prabhupāda: The aborigines here, they have got any religion?

Devotee (1): Where?

Prabhupāda: Here in Australia.

Devotee (1): Well, they mostly worship ghosts and spirits, I think. Trees.

Prabhupāda: Bhūtejyā.

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So there is religion. Yānti bhūtāni bhūtejyā. What is this "UJV"?

Amogha: That is the license plate.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. What is the... Generally, the city's name are there.

Devotee (1): Well, it usually has a U before the initials. I don't know why.

Amogha: Generally, they make them all-each one is a little bit different.

Devotee (1): Was Mahīrāvaṇa also a demon?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): What happened to him?

Prabhupāda: He was killed by Rāmacandra.

Amogha: He was called by his brother, wasn't he...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: ...to Ceylon in the battle?

Prabhupāda: No, he made a plan to kill Rāmacandra.

Amogha: Rāmacandra made a plan?

Prabhupāda: No, Mahīrāvaṇa. And in that plan he was killed. [break] That is Indo-European civilization. The kings came from India, and he developed. Therefore it is called Indo-European civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: The scientists and the archaeologists are very amazed to find the structures, the buildings that they had in their civilization. They can't understand how they were built, such huge pillars and gigantic stones. They don't know how they were put into place.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the Jagannātha temple is also like that. They suggest that they manufacture, and then they surround with sand, then further manufacture. And when it is complete the sand is taken away. Otherwise how it is put into...? The sand is stacked just like this. The temple is being manufactured, and the sand is thrown all side, and when it is finished, the sand is taken away.

Devotee (1): The temple is manufactured in the sand?

Prabhupāda: No, as usual. Just like they dig well. They dig well. They begin immediately, and then you dig the earth, and the structure goes down. Then again, then again, like that. They were experts, they were experts, to construct... Labor is cheap. That time, practically there was no labor cost. At the present moment, on account of factories, the labor cost has increased. Otherwise the laborers, they were, they have no sufficient employment. So two annas, four annas. I was paying labor, four annas, say, in 1930s. Four annas. In Allahabad I was paying four annas. He would work whole day. In Bombay eight annas.

Devotee (1): They also have the big structures in Egypt, the pyramids.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: Perhaps they used sand also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: The Greeks say that they built their buildings... They hired some very big men called cyclopses, big giants. And they came and built all the buildings.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And such stories are in Mahābhārata also. The demons were engaged, giants and demons, for construction. Yes. And they were very good artist, how to do it. Now we employ the first-class men, so-called first-class engineering, but they were meant for the demons and giants. Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, that explains how they built such fantastic temples and palaces.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: Some people say, "Why don't we see any giants any more today?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Africa, there were many giants, very high, very strong.

Devotee (1):. Where is that?

Paramahaṁsa: In Africa some of the natives, very big, eight feet tall.

Prabhupāda: Very tall.

Devotee (1): In South America also, they used to have the Amazons, a big race.

Paramahaṁsa: Didn't one demon construct a big parliament house for Kṛṣṇa? That demon Māyā? For King Yudhiṣṭhira?

Prabhupāda: Umm.

 

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth